Early Warning

[Magnus]

I do not agree with the $20-25 price for the core book unless it is a hard back with interior colour. Also cash is tight nowadays for a lot of people so i would think lower price would not put buyers off quite the reverse. Mongoose and Pinnacle do alright selling cheap $10 games. Savage worlds is selling very well at that price. You also need to think about overseas customers, a $20 book becomes a £20 book an the time it turns up at my local game shop where it will compete with similarly priced full colour hard backs. He you want to attract new players price is important. As for speculation on the publisher my money is on XRP.

[MachFront]

Not really sure how I feel about this, to be perfectly honest. Guess i'll just wait and see.

As the old* Stones' song goes, "You're not the only one with mixed emotions..." It's going to be interesting, at the very least.

Whew.
Ok. Good. I'm not alone.

I'll remain hopeful. But I'll admit that it makes me itch.

[skathros]

I do not agree with the $20-25 price for the core book unless it is a hard back with interior colour. Also cash is tight nowadays for a lot of people so i would think lower price would not put buyers off quite the reverse. Mongoose and Pinnacle do alright selling cheap $10 games. Savage worlds is selling very well at that price. You also need to think about overseas customers, a $20 book becomes a £20 book an the time it turns up at my local game shop where it will compete with similarly priced full colour hard backs. He you want to attract new players price is important.

The price is one of the two things that bothers me about what Myth posted. Not the price itself. If Mythmere games proposed to sell thier books a little more for whatever reason, i'd be right behind them doing my part for the game. Upping the price to "be taken seriously"? I must confess, that rubs me the wrong way. It goes against the RetroMovement philosophy. MG would be the first company (of the retro-clone companies) to to bow to the mainstream this way. And to what end? To get the game into game stores? Harsh as this is, the Game Store Days are over. Sure, a handful of folks might pick S&W up while they're at thier FLGS picking up 4E's Player Handbook 12, but i'm not sure the numbers will be enough to warrent such a shift in philosophy.

There's also the "having extra content for the store version" thing. That (to me) is a biggie. All the other retro-clones, including S&W, have offered print and d/l versions of the same game. It's what we were founded on. I know, other companies offer free starters, or lite versions of the rules, but retro clones have operated in a different way, and done so with much success. Change that, and S&W becomes just another mainstream game, like C&C.

It'll be interesting to see how this shift pans out.

As for speculation on the publisher my money is on XRP.

Well, i'd be more comfertable with XRP than the TLG theory.

[Magnus]

Mongoose have got to be a possibility as they already publish two retro clones and they publish other companies games. shame about the quality of there stuff

[skathros]

Not really sure how I feel about this, to be perfectly honest. Guess i'll just wait and see.

As the old* Stones' song goes, "You're not the only one with mixed emotions..." It's going to be interesting, at the very least.

Whew.
Ok. Good. I'm not alone.

I'll remain hopeful. But I'll admit that it makes me itch.

We still have WhiteBox...for now.

[bat]

The price is one of the two things that bothers me about what Myth posted. Not the price itself. If Mythmere games proposed to sell thier books a little more for whatever reason, i'd be right behind them doing my part for the game. Upping the price to "be taken seriously"? I must confess, that rubs me the wrong way. It goes against the RetroMovement philosophy. MG would be the first company (of the retro-clone companies) to to bow to the mainstream this way. And to what end? To get the game into game stores? Harsh as this is, the Game Store Days are over. Sure, a handful of folks might pick S&W up while they're at thier FLGS picking up 4E's Player Handbook 12, but i'm not sure the numbers will be enough to warrent such a shift in philosophy.

There's also the "having extra content for the store version" thing. That (to me) is a biggie. All the other retro-clones, including S&W, have offered print and d/l versions of the same game. It's what we were founded on. I know, other companies offer free starters, or lite versions of the rules, but retro clones have operated in a different way, and done so with much success. Change that, and S&W becomes just another mainstream game, like C&C.

It'll be interesting to see how this shift pans out.

Well, i'd be more comfertable with XRP than the TLG theory.

Upon further contemplation, I have to agree. Raising the price for the distributor I understand, there are now middlemen involved. However, raising the price to be taken seriously doesn't sound like a hobbyist take on this situation. When you have the product in hand in the store then the proof is in the pudding. You can stand there and go through the book and see the quality, why does a price reflect quality? Labyrinth Lord was distributed for a time and I don't believe that Dan Proctor changed a thing, in the book or the price. I am sure that there is more to this and I am also confident that Matt is making the right moves for the long run, but, especially in this day and age, finding low cost entertainment is becoming more of an issue for a lot of people. Thankfully, "knock on wood" I am not there yet, I just like these games, but if money were an issue for me, and I would probably go with another retro-clone rather than one in a storefront. What is the benefit of buying S&W for $25 in a store over buying another retro-clone from Lulu? I am honestly not trying to be a dick, Matt, I am trying to see the big picture with the lens I am given.

[JimLotFP]

Labyrinth Lord was distributed for a time and I don't believe that Dan Proctor changed a thing, in the book or the price.

Labyrinth Lord in print was much more expensive than the other clones, even before he got into retail distribution, because he was planning to go into distro from the start. Proctor has since said that the price should have been higher.

Products going into distribution are going to be more expensive. Period. I don't know the specifics on the S&W deal, but in general a publisher only gets 40% of the final retail price, and so the publisher has to pay expenses and make any profit off of that amount. And in this case, MG and the publisher in question have to fit their financial arrangement within that space as well.

So if everything is "standard," if they're charging $22 retail, that's $8.80 they have to split between them according to whatever arrangement they come to. I assume the publisher in question isn't small press, so they won't be doing this for charity or (just) to "support the scene." They need a financial return.

I know commercialization doesn't sit well with a lot of people... but it has to go there to grow. This is a hobby based on social networks and cooperation and the perception of credibility (game groups have to agree on what to play!). We're still working against the fact that everything we're doing is based on games 20-30 years out of print and that the producers are part-time "basement publishers."

The credibility of a well-distributed product will grow the player base more than cheap POD and free download product ever could.

And... hi, everyone! I've been lurking for awhile... first post!

[MikeD]

Yeah, it's gotta be TLG.

God, I hope not. Anyone but.

I agree with Skathros on this. Please don't let it be TLG...

[Magnus]

Why no Troll love?

[Lord Kilgore]

Not really sure how I feel about this, to be perfectly honest. Guess i'll just wait and see.

While I hope the best for MG and the game in general, I must admit that I'm not terribly thrilled with these developments. I'm very glad I went WB instead of Core with S&W at this point. I fear that this could be a huge step away from the hobbyist approach that's fired this "movement" so far, and it's coming such a short time after things first saw print.

All that said, it's a product worthy of the attention. Hopefully, someday we'll all laugh about the trepidation some of us feel right now. As noted, it's time to wait and see.